A Day at Neverland - with Natasha Kirker

In 2002, cystic fibrosis and double lung transplant survivor Natasha Kirker, her mother and two friends were invited to spend the day with Michael Jackson at his Neverland Valley Ranch home with thanks to the Make-A-Wish foundation. In this episode, Natasha tells us all about the day she spent at Neverland, including getting to visit Michael’s private residence where she got to speak with him, his children and other family members.
I didn’t discover Natasha’s story until AFTER my book was published, so this particular story isn’t in my book. I hope you enjoy the chat.




To donate to the Make-A-Wish foundation, click HERE.

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To buy the book “Humanitarian The Real Michael Jackson, click HERE.

To connect with the HumanitarianMJ Facebook, click HERE.

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To connect with the HumanitarianMJ Insta, click HERE.

To connect with Paul Dwyer’s Twitter, click HERE.

To connect with Paul Dwyer’s Insta, click HERE.

Transcript

Episode 2: Natasha Kirker - A Day at Neverland

In 2002, cystic fibrosis and double lung transplant survivor Natasha Kirker, her mother and two friends were invited to spend the day with Michael Jackson at his Neverland Valley Ranch home with thanks to the Make-A-Wish foundation. In this episode, Natasha tells us all about the day she spent at Neverland, including getting to visit Michael’s private residence where she got to speak with him, his children and other family members. I didn’t discover Natasha’s story until AFTER my book was published, so this particular story isn’t in my book. I hope you enjoy the chat.

Transcript:

Natasha:

Hi! I like your background!

Paul:

Thanks, I thought it was appropriate! How are you going? I saw a photo on your Instagram a couple of days ago and you had a drip in your arm, are you OK

Natasha:

Oh yep. I’m on some antibiotics right now, but it’s all good though.

Paul:

I’m happy to postpone this chat if you’re not feeling up to it?

Natasha:

No, I’m all good, but thank you. That’s very nice of you.

Paul:

So, as I told you in our messages, in 2018 I compiled a book called Humanitarian The Real Michael Jackson, which is full of stories about people that Michael helped, people that came to neverland or people he visited in hospitals and orphanages. I thought it was overdue that those stories were told and put in the public forum because they don’t seem to be recognized or spoken about very often. I did that in 2018 and actually your story’s not in there. I did a lot of research over a few years but it wasn’t until after I had published the book that I came across your story, so I’m really happy to chat to you now that I’m doing the podcast because obviously there’ll be stories from the book that will be in the podcast, but I’m really happy to talk to you because yours is a story that’s not in the book and from what I’ve heard it’s a great story, so I’d love to hear it if you’re happy to share?

Natasha:

Where did you come across it?

Paul:

It’s been replicated and is in so many different Michael Jackson forums, it’s in like 5 or 6 different forums now, but the original blog where it appeared isn’t there anymore.

I wanted to start the episode with you taking us back to your childhood. Can you tell us what it’s like to be a child with cystic fibrosis?

Natasha:

So, I was diagnosed at three months old. I’m not sure if you know a lot about CF but it mainly affects your lungs and your breathing. You get recurrent lung infections, so I was pretty sick as a kid. I couldn’t do a lot of athletic-type things, like running around and playing and you know; things that normal kids were doing. So, I was into art and music, and all that sort of stuff that you didn’t need physical exertion to participate in, so yeah, I was pretty sick growing up and I can remember the first Michael Jackson song I heard, it was from the Free Willy movie.

Paul:

Oh yeah, Will You Be There.

Natasha:

Yep, so listening to music was a big part of calming me down or relaxing me when I was sick or going to the doctors or going for procedures, you know it was just like a very calming thing, right? We can all relate to music and everyone listens to music, it was just a good way to escape my own reality. You know; just putting the headphones in and not paying attention to anything else!

Paul:

Yep, I still do it now at 45 years old! So, you discover Michael Jackson. What sort of age were you then?

Natasha:

I was probably older than you would think, I think I was around twelve…ish, I was in middle school, like 6th or 7th grade and I don’t know what it was, but I just became obsessed!

Paul:

And are your hospital visits a regular thing at that age?

Natasha:

Yep! I was at the doctors all the time and you know way back then, they’d keep you in the hospital, so I’d be in the hospital for like 20 day stretches. Like today I can do everything at home, but back then that wasn’t a thing, so I was there pretty often.

Paul:

Do you remember when you first came across the make-a-wish foundation?

Natasha:

Yeah, I was actually in the hospital and I saw this commercial where a little kid got to go on a beach vacation & I was in the hospital bed seeing this commercial and I was thinking “I have to submit myself to that,” you know, “I should get a wish,” and at the time I was crazy obsessed with Michael Jackson, so I knew exactly what I wanted, there was no question, & it’s not a typical wish for them, so I went on the computer, I filled out the forms and it took a long time. I don’t know if I relayed that in the essay, but it took quite a long time because of the magnitude of the wish, you know, I volunteer with Make-A-Wish now and most people go to Disneyland! So, to say you want to go to Neverland and spend the day with Michael Jackson takes a lot of work!

Paul:

I can imagine!

Natasha:

I think it took about a year and a half for them to finally get back to me and at the time, he was not doing wishes anymore, he had stopped because of all the negative press that he was getting, so it took a lot of convincing. They kept asking me to change my wish, and I was like “No way! Somehow you gotta get this to work!”

Paul:

So, over this time when you’re waiting to hear back from Make-A-Wish, your health wasn’t getting any better?

Natasha:

No, it was definitely getting worse. By that point, I was going through the testing to get listed for a lung transplant, when I was waiting for that wish. I think actually at that point they didn’t really want me to travel because I was so sick and you know, once you’re on a transplant list, you have to be in the area if you get called, but no one was going to stop me from going!

Paul:

Hahaha, I love that drive of a thirteen-year-old Natasha! So, it took a while for them to come back with your wish, how did it eventually happen? How did they come back to you and say “Hey, Guess what!?!”

Natasha:

It came out of the blue. I hadn’t heard from them in a long time, they were working on it and we weren’t really in constant contact, but I can remember when the call came. It was out of the blue and they called me and said “So you’re going to go to Neverland! Pack your bags, you’ll be going in like 3 days!” It was immediate! It was like “pack your bags, they said yes and you’re going!” I think I almost passed out! It was so unexpected because they hadn’t worked on it for so long, it was just in the back of my mind, I didn’t know when the call would come or if they would ever actually make it happen, so yeah, I think I almost passed out… and the fact that I didn’t really have a chance to think about it! It was just “pack your bags, the flight is in 2 days! Get ready!”

Paul:

You live in Boston, right? 

Natasha:

Yep.

Paul:

So how far is that from Neverland? Is it a big flight?

Natasha:

It’s like a 6 or 7 hour flight. 

Paul:

OK, that’s decent.

Natasha:

Yeah, well not as long as maybe going to Australia! Hahaha

Paul:

No, that’s ridiculously long, but 6 or 7 hours is still a lot for a child and especially for one that’s not feeling well. 

Natasha:

Yes, that’s very true.

Paul:

Wow so you’ve got 2 days to get ready. Did you sleep in those 2 days?

Natasha:

Probably not & I had no idea what I was going to wear! Like what could I possibly wear? The outfit has to be perfect!

Paul:

Did they tell you you were going to meet him?

Natasha:

Yes! There were no real specifics about it, it was just you’re going to Neverland and have an opportunity to visit with him. There was no real outline of how the day would be or how it would go. I didn’t know what to expect.

Paul:

Yeah, so how did the day go? How did it all start?

Natasha:

We travelled there on a bus from whatever hotel I was staying at & there were no cameras allowed, this was way before cell phones and everybody having a camera. We get to Neverland… and Neverland is kind of – have you been there?

Paul:

Yes!

Natasha:

So, it’s in the middle of nowhere really, it’s kind of like you’re driving and all of a sudden, it’s there! I remember going u the driveway, there was music playing everywhere, there were flowers everywhere, angelic statues everywhere. It was just like out of a dream basically, it’s just amazing. 

Paul:

Who were you with?

Natasha:

I got to bring a friend, my mum came & she got to bring a friend, so there were 4 of us. We got there and they bought us all around the compound. I think the first place we went was maybe his arcade and he was not with us at first, somebody was showing us around, maybe his assistant, there was like a team of people there showing us around and they were filming. He had people filming, which I think maybe he just always had people filming just to archive what was going on, and he came into the arcade, I remember he was wearing the classic black pants and red shirt, like exactly what you’d see him wearing anyway.

Paul:

And his fedora?

Natasha:

He didn’t have a hat on & he was a lot taller than I was expecting. I was so nervous, I couldn’t say anything, I was just so nervous. I couldn’t believe it was actually him walking with us. He talked to my mum right away, and I was like “Oh My God, he’s just talking like a normal person!” You know, you just feel like he was out of this world and the fact that he was just having a normal conversation, I just couldn’t believe it! At the time I was 18, you know, if it happened today, I’d probably react differently, being older, more mature and wiser, but I just couldn’t even say anything!

So, he spent the day with us going around on the rides, on the trolley, we got to watch… this is kind of funny, but in his movie theatre, we watched music videos of him, which is kind of funny! I don’t know. There wasn’t a whole lot of interaction really, he was quiet & reserved, but you’re like doing all of these things with him but it wasn’t like he was a chatterbox or very talkative. I think he just lied to watch the people around him enjoying all of the stuff there. I remember the candy was crazy, there was just like candy everywhere! He had lunch with us. We sat and had lunch outside, which someone had catered it and I remember asking someone from Make-A-Wish who paid for that, because it was just so much food and soda and they said he had paid for it, which I thought was so surprising.

Paul:

Amazing. Was this just for your group of 4 or was there other groups there?

Natasha:

No, there were other kids there and a lot of staff, a lot of people from Make-A-Wish, a lot of people that were obviously with him. There were maybe 15 other kids there, so it was quite a big group, which I think is why they were able to talk him into doing it. Because there were so many people that wanted to go there and meet him through Make-A-Wish. I was definitely the oldest person there. I was 18, I’m going to say most of the other kids were 6, 7, 8, like much younger than I was. We spent the full day there; maybe 10 hours.

Paul:

Oh wow!

Natasha:

It was a long, long day. 

Paul:

Did you go into the house?

Natasha:

So, it’s kind of an interesting story, but he had some cousins there that were playing basketball, like off to the side playing basketball, two of them. The friend that my mum had bought was an ex-professional basketball player, so she said to these cousins, “Hey if I play you in a game of horse or whatever and I beat you, can you get Natasha in to the house with him?” They had not bought us into the house, I think it was sort of off limits… and she beat them of course! I don’t think they assumed that she would have played professionally, so I did get like 10 minutes inside with him in his home with Prince & Paris, who were very young at the time, maybe like 4 & 5, they were really young. He told me he liked my outfit! So, I did a good job! It was worth the effort! Hahaha

He just talked very normally, you know, where are you guys from? How have you liked the day? Just normal chitchat and he introduced his two kids and he did actually say that he had one on the way, which I guess was a big deal for him to say that, because it was a secret at the time. He didn’t have shoes on, he had white socks on when he came in and his voice sounded a lot deeper than it is normally. That’s the only… You know people always want some kind of crazy tidbit about the day & that’s the only thing I can really tell you that I was surprised by, that he had this deep voice.

He was very gracious when we were in this beautiful room. Everything in it looked very expensive! You know, you feared you were going to break something and it would be, you know, very valuable. The kids were so well-behaved. I remember they were just the cutest things. Sadly, there were no pictures. It would have been great to have been able to take a picture.

Paul:

So, the kids said hello? 

Natasha:

The kids said hello, they introduced themselves.

Paul:

How cute!

Natasha:

Yes, super cute! The house was off limits for the rest of the group and the cousins, they came through you know, they were like “c’mon, c’mon, come quickly, you can come in & he’ll meet with you guys…”

Paul:

Do you remember who the cousins were?

Natasha:

I know that… I want to say… Is there one whose name starts with an “O?”

Paul:

Ahh Omer?

Natasha:

Maybe. They looked familiar to me, like I had seen them in pictures before.

Paul:

That’s pretty cool that they kept their end of the bargain.

Natasha:

Yeah, because they definitely didn’t have to.

Paul:

So, you’re there with staff and Make-A-Wish people. Do they have like an itinerary for the day?
 Like now we’re going to go and do this, then we’re going to go and do that...?

Natasha:

Yes. 

Paul:

But you broke away from that for a little while.

Natasha:

Yes, and we were walking on this path together and they were like “c’mon, come away from the group and come inside fast, hurry up” so that was quite a special thing.

Paul:

But then that finishes and you have to go and rejoin the group and enjoy the rest of Neverland, which isn’t such a bad thing anyway!
 What did you get up to then?

Natasha:

I think that was at the end of the day, so right after that we walked to the bus and left, it was right at the very end.

Paul:

Did you associate with anyone else there? Did you meet other people and hear their stories?

Natasha:

Ummm, I’m going to say not really because there was such a huge age difference, you know, I was 18 and they were like 6 and 7.

Paul:

And you’ve got your friend and your mum and her friend.
 How does a day like that end? Don’t you just want to say “No, I’m not going! I’m staying here!”

Natasha:

Yes, because I remember saying “what are we going to do when we get back to the hotel?” Like what do you even do after a day like that? Like how do you ever do anything normal again? And I think we went to see a movie!

Paul:

And on that, when you were in the theatre, do you remember what music videos you watched?

Natasha:

We watched all of them! I mean we were in that theatre for a good hour and it was unlimited candy. I just remember all the soda and candy was just like non-stop and this is going to sound horrible, but he was drinking orange crush, so we were seated right near him, like a movie theatre basically, but with better seating. We were seated near him and I was watching him drink these sodas and when we all left the theatre I went and took them and I took home these empty soda cans! Today it sounds crazy, at the time it seemed appropriate!

Paul:

No, it doesn’t! How long did you hold on to them for?

Natasha:

I still have them! They’re in a box packed away somewhere.

Paul:

I’ve seen Neverland merchandise; did they give you anything like that?

Natasha:

No, we didn’t get any merchandise, which was kind of surprising now that I think about it, but no they didn’t give us anything.

Paul:

Do you feel like, as someone who’s 18 and has some health issues and you were on the waiting list at the time to get a lung transplant, right?

Natasha:

Yes.

Paul:

Do you feel like that day affected your health? 

Natasha:

Yeah, I think 1) I think waiting for that wish kind of kept me going, you know, it gave me something to look forward to, so it helped when I was really sick to think “this may happen one day, you gotta keep pushing, you gotta keep going,” it gave me something to almost aspire to and then after I met him, I’m going to say I had the transplant maybe a year later, I think that after I met him, the music videos and the music and the performances meant more to me, like helped me out even more, you know gave me confidence and healing and meditation even more after I had met him, it was even more powerful, I think.

Paul:

I can imagine! Is that because then from that day forward, when you look at a video or listen to his music, you’re taken back to Neverland and you’re taken back to feeling those feelings?

Natasha:

Definitely. 

Paul:

Yeah, the body remembers.

Natasha:

Yeah definitely. 

Paul:

So, you went on to have the lung transplant?

Natasha:

Yes.

Paul:

Which is good news, so your health got better after that?

Natasha:

Yes. A transplant is not a cure, it just makes things more manageable and I can breathe, you know shortly after that I went on oxygen and I was quite sick and you know, you can’t function when you can’t breathe. So, with the new lungs, I could breathe, just like you can breathe, it just happens, there’s no effort and no thought process, it just is.

Paul:

That’s amazing to think of the things that we take for granted as people with healthy lungs.

Natasha:

Yeah, well even today I find myself taking it for granted, because I don’t think about it anymore.

Paul:

And you’ve had TWO, right?

Natasha:

Yes.

Paul:

Wow! That’s amazing. How long after your first transplant was it until you needed to have your second?

Natasha:

I had my first transplant in 2003 and my second in 2012.

Paul:

So, 9 years… I don’t know a lot about lung transplants, but 9 years doesn’t sound like a long time to need…

Natasha:

Yeah, it doesn’t. I think actually the average, or way back then the average was only 5 years, so I had surpassed what the average was way back then. Today it’s more, they haven’t figured out a way for your body to eventually reject them, because you know, they don’t belong to you, your body sees it as a kind of invader, so they still haven’t figured out a foolproof way for your body to just accept them as their own. There’s still a lot of things to figure out.

Paul:

But you’re feeling good now?

Natasha:

Yeah!

Paul:

Great and as I said I read your blog and while doing my research I noticed you love your food!

Natasha:

I’m a big foodie, yep! I need to get back to blogging, I haven’t blogged in a while.

Paul:

Yeah, I wasn’t sure because one of your last posts was like 2019.

Natasha:

Yeah, a while ago, you’re going to make me get back into it now.

Paul:

Good! Because you’re a really talented writer & I really enjoyed reading some of your stuff. I read an article you wrote for Glamour magazine. Is writing what you do for a profession?

Natasha:

Yes. 

Paul:

Well, you’re very good at it, so please keep going with it.

Natasha:

Thank you!

Paul:

Do you still volunteer with Make-A-Wish?

Natasha:

Yes, I do. I mean for them to figure out how to make that happen, I can only go back and pay it forward.

Paul:

Wow. So, what do you do with them?

Natasha:

I will go to the child’s house and get their information and what kind of wish they want and keep track of them and let them know how the wish process is going and when it happens, I get to call them and tell them… I never got to call anyone and tell them they were going to Neverland! Hahaha

Paul:

But you would still grant some pretty cool wishes, right? Disneyland?

Natasha:

Yes! Lots of Disneyland! That’s definitely the most popular one.

Paul:

For a lot of kids these days, they probably wouldn’t know what Neverland was like anyway.

Natasha:

Yes, I know. Isn’t that crazy? But I do think a lot of little kids do know Michael Jackson & his music.

Paul:

Yeah 100%. His music is definitely timeless. I’ve got 2 kids and they’re 24 and 18 now but when they were little they discovered and without my influence… no influence at all!!! They discovered Michael Jackson and all their little friends discovered Michael Jackson, so there’s definitely something timeless and pure about his music. Every generation just seems to keep discovering his music and I tell my kids “Some of these videos were made 30 or 40 years ago,” and they’re like “Really? Because they’re still so good!”

Natasha:

Isn’t that crazy?

Paul:

Its testament to how ahead of his time Michael was and how talented he was that these music videos from 40 years ago, kids are discovering now and with how far technology has come, they’re still amazing videos and its still amazing music. Its just mind-boggling. 

Natasha:

So how did you get into liking Michael Jackson?

Paul:

Well, I’m 45 so I discovered Michael around the Thriller era, so I followed him all through the Thriller, Bad, Dangerous & HIStory eras. I was a fan and then in the 90’s I saw him in concert on his HIStory tour in Australia. I got to meet him there and say hello and have a chat, so then that sky-rocketed my fandom status, that was in the 90’s so I was 18 or 19 and I created a blog about his visits to Australia and while doing my research for that, I discovered all the hospitals and orphanages that he visited, so I started looking deeper into that at all his humanitarian endeavors and found it quite unjust that none of those stories were being told by the media, so I started compiling all that information and ended up releasing it as a book!

Natasha:

That’s Awesome!

Paul:

Yeah! So, we’re getting these stories out there and getting truth out there because I think it’s important now that he’s gone and there’s so much crap written, that his HIStory includes the truth and it’s a beautiful truth and I hope other people can be inspired, like you, who give back and now volunteer with the foundation that helped you accomplish your dreams, these stories need to be told now, these days. We don’t have any heroes left in the world these days; I don’t think.

Natasha:

Yeah. Its so true. 
 Well, you’re doing an awesome, awesome thing.

Paul:

Thank you so much. Thanks for replying to my messages, thanks for chatting with me. I appreciate your time. Is there anything else you wanted to add in about your day at Neverland?

Natasha:

No, I don’t think so. My only message would be in general, that if you really want something, you just have to keep, you know, praying or wishing or whatever it is you do. I prayed to meet Michael for years and years and years and whatever it is you want or hope for or dream for, it doesn’t have to be meeting your hero or whatever, you just gotta keep doing it.

Paul:

Persistence.

Natasha:

You can’t give up.

Paul:

100%... actually it just came into my mind; do you remember what rides you went on?

Natasha:

Yep! I remember these giant swings, the swings that go up like this, not back and forth, yes, they go out and spin around. I remember those, I remember the Ferris wheel, those are the two that stick out in my mind and I remember riding the train everywhere.

Paul:

Tash, I’ll wind it up, thank you so so much for chatting with me, I really appreciate it.

Natasha:

Thanks so much, it was great to get to chat with you.

Paul:

Thank you. Have a great day.

Natasha:

You too.