Michael Jackson's humanitarian legacy - with Prince Michael Jackson Jnr & John Muto

In the first episode of the "Humanitarian - The REAL Michael Jackson" podcast, Paul Dwyer chats exclusively to "The Heal Los Angeles Foundation" co-founders John Muto & Prince Michael Jackson Jnr.
The guys chat about Paul's book, Michael Jackson's global humanitarian endeavors and how those efforts have impacted & motivated the work that John & Prince do on behalf of The Heal Los Angeles Foundation.

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Transcript

Hey guys

My name is Paul Dwyer. Welcome to the first episode of my new podcast Humanitarian The Real Michael Jackson.

The podcast is based on the book that I published in 2018 of the same name and is basically a diary of all of Michael Jackson’s philanthropic endeavors from his childhood right up until his passing in 2009. It details all the hospitals & orphanages that he visited, charities he supported and acts of kindness that are on public record, but I MUST STRESS a lot of these humanitarian efforts were performed in private & Michael often banned media outlets from attending, asked for no photos to be taken and didn’t believe in publicizing them. It was Michael’s belief that the acts are worth more if done privately.

If you don’t know about the book, please go back & watch or listen to the introductory episode of this podcast.

Now I’m so excited to introduce my first two special guests.

The first is the co-founder and CEO of the not-for-profit organization “The Heal Los Angeles Foundation” Mr. John Muto.

And joining him is the other co-founder of the organization and Michael Jackson’s first-born son, Prince Michael Jackson Jnr.

I’m trying to keep the episodes in this podcast short and to around half an hour, but this first episode is very special & will go for a little longer at just over an hour.

I hope you enjoy the chat, please feel free to give me feedback on any of my socials, but for now, here’s my chat with John Muto & Prince Michael Jackson Jnr…

Paul:

Thank you. First of all, thank you because I know especially you Prince, you don't do much of this. You don't talk to many people publicly. So, I really appreciate it. I appreciate your time and yourself, John. Now, I know you have both got a copy of my book because we met last year, and I know you've had a look at it. I wanted to ask, first of all if there was a particular story or something in the book that touched you or that you found interesting.

Prince:

You want to go first?

John:

Me. You go first.

Prince:

So, for me, it was a really awesome book for me because, as I mentioned earlier, right when I'm working on the film of my dad, I've gone through this journey where I have learned so much about a man that I grew up with, but there's so much history that I wasn't there for. So, when I read your book and I read through it, all of the stories were so familiar to me because they had been told to me by my dad. What was so impressive to me was to see it laid out on the scale that you did. It going back even to his early years as a young adult right. And to see how much he had actually done. And then when you start getting into, like, the how frequent it was, you almost forget that he was on tour during these times, still had a time not only to donate large sums of money everywhere that he went, but he also donated his time. He showed up. And from my childhood, that was something he was always very proud of. He was proud of his artistry. He was proud of his heritage. But he was so proud of what that, as a platform, gave him to do to support the nonprofit in his philanthropic endeavors. And when I was going through your book, it really sparked this memory. I know my dad was very again, he was proud of his accomplishments, and he always spoke about how he was in the Guinness Book of Records for two reasons. I know the two reasons that he's in there, but I only remember him talking about how proud he was to be holding the Guinness Book of Record for, I think, the broad scope of how many charities he had actually contributed to or how much he had helped.

Paul:

That were on the record.

Prince:

Exactly. Because a lot of the things, when you speak to people who knew him or my siblings and I, we would accompany him on these types of trips. And it's Michael Jackson, the most famous person in the world at one point. Right. It's hard not to get a photo of him. But there are in my memory places that I visited that I can't tell you where they were. I don't remember where they were. I was a child. I just showed up and I was with my father. But there's no coverage of it. For me, it's like, did it happen? Is it something else? But I remember it happening. And he was just that type of person that as much as publicity as he had around him, kind of everywhere that he went, he still had these opportunities to do things that he wanted to do. Helping children burn victims, people who were less fortunate that he didn't do it for publicity. He did it because it was something inside.

Paul:

Yeah, 100%. Was there a particular story for you, John, that stood out or that you were interested in?

John:

Yes, most definitely. I think what To Prince just said, it's so important just showing up right, showing up to your son or daughter's game, son or daughter's school show. It's unfortunate. But the one that spoke most to me was the one at Cleveland elementary, and I believe there was a school shooting. School shooting is happening left and right in America and people don't know what to do about it. I think you see in the sports world of sports teams, of their coaches or their players coming out and speaking about how we got to end gun violence and pretty much all that, and there's no answers to it. But for someone like an icon like Michael Jackson to show up at your elementary school, there is no other artists or celebrities that do that kind of stuff. And to read what he did and I think believe he went to that church across the street or that was local. I mean, that's just an additional step that not many people do and how special and how iconic. Someone like Michael Jackson to come to your church, to come to your elementary school, just to lessen the burden and just to help out the students and the family is just unheard of. So that was the one that really spoke out to me, just of how relevant it is based on the world that we live in today.

Prince:

Some of the stories that really resonated with me was Ryan White, who I never met, and David Rothenberg. And I remember meeting David, and I think it's a testament to my father's character that not only did he reach out and try to lessen the burden or lessen the trauma of these events that were going through these children's lives. But he also made it a point to maintain contact and to be there to support them throughout their life in the ways that he could. And from what I remember, David was such a sweet guy and he had a relationship with my dad. And you listen to the song Gone Too Soon, that's just such an emotional song. And to hear the stories laid out, because, again, they're told to me through my dad. But to see the whole story right and laid out in your book just added more information to it. And I don't know how to say it, but brought it to reality, in a way, like really put it in the scope that this was an individual who had an unfortunate in both cases, an unfortunate incident that happened to them. And my dad reached out to try and make their life better in the ways that he could.

Paul:

Yeah, and did. And I know I've got an interview with a student from Cleveland elementary who was a student back then, who was there on the day of the shooting and who was there on the day that your father came and visited. So, I can't wait for that story to be told. It's quite touching when you think of these little kids that are scared to go back to school, but then when your father rocks up and they say, okay, so if Michael Jackson is okay to come to school, we can go back to school. And the effect that has on children is just profound. So, I think you sort of covered on it. Prince, do you have any memories of specific places or orphanages or hospitals that you visited as a kid?

Prince:

Definitely. And when I mentioned when I'm traveling with my dad, it's a team of security guards. I just get in the car, I get out. I sometimes don't even know what country we're in. But what's interesting to me, and your book helped me out so much is that I always had this memory of visiting what I thought was an orphanage because it wasn't a hospital, but it was set up in a way where there was beds and kind of like a dormitory for kids. And I remember spending the day there with my dad, and it turns out it was Japan, because I see the photos and a light clicked for me. And there were many instances in different countries where we would either visit hospitals or orphanages or children's homes, and he would spend time with the kids there. And from the inside, being within his family, right. The way he would kind of talk to us about it, because we're also kids, and he wanted to daddy's going to go out, and he's going to be helping these young children. He didn't want us to get jealous and feel like he didn't love us, but he wanted to his love with these other children. And looking back on it now, I have such a greater appreciation for it than when you're a kid and you're there, you don't really know what's going on. But he was always adamant about instilling in us that there are people who are less fortunate than us. When you grow up in Neverland, you grow up with security. We're very sheltered, very privileged, but you didn't want us to grow up thinking that was the way the world was. It was very privileged and for lack of a better term, kind of a 1% type of lifestyle. Most of the world is not living like this. And he thought it was very important to expose us to the other side. A, to be grateful for what we have, but also to recognize that we're in a position to help others. When he grew up within the Jehovah's Witness, going to Kingdom Hall and kind of as a fundamental principle for most religions, it's to live a life of service. And I think that was instilled in him at a very young age. And it's obvious when you go through every stage of his life, he was constantly acting in a life of service. And he imparted that on us, on my siblings and I. Right. That it's so important to give back to your communities. It's important for you as a human being to be a part of a community. It's important to know your place and how you can support your community, because there's so many karma is a real thing. You go out there, you look good in the world, it comes back to you twofold. And when you go and you do things for other people, it makes you feel good about yourself. And that's a feeling that you can't buy. That's a feeling that you can't really give. You have to earn, and you have to go out and be of service to others.

Paul:

Yeah. And it gives you a purpose, which is important. Everybody needs a purpose. Do you remember groups of people coming to Neverland and into your home?

Prince:

Not as much. So, I have a lot of family videos, kind of like personal videos of mine, and they spark some memories every now and then. But neverland was such a large property. And I always feel like the sound of children was there, whether it was my siblings and I, it could have been my cousins, it could have been these children that my father brought in. But it always had this kind of cacophony of children playing.

Paul:

Yeah. So, do you remember a time when you had the realization that we're a family that are different and have an opportunity to help other people, or was that always just normal to you?

Prince:

So, it was instilled in us as children. Right. And I think as a child, you kind of just take what your parents say at face value. Sometimes you may question, you don't really appreciate it. And something my dad always used to tell me is, you don't understand it now, but you will when you're older. And as a kid, that was the most frustrating thing, because it's like, why don't I understand it now? But as I get older, I feel myself kicking myself in the butt. I'm like, it wasn't really an AHA moment of sorts. It was kind of always there. But it wasn't until I started, I was being less sheltered after my dad died. I was living with my grandma, kind of being integrated into normal society, going to school and having normal friends and kind of seeing how the other side of the coin lived. And it was there when I recognized that not all my friends came from privileged meats and their living style or their lifestyles and kind of living was different than mine, but everybody's still a human being and that it's not an indication of the quality or value of that person. And for me, it wasn't a specific moment. Right. That's where it came. And it was, man, he was so right. And I know why he was teaching us and showing us these things. And now I have a personal experience that summed it all up, and it was, man, now I know what you're talking about.

Paul:

Yeah. So, he set you up with the foundation and you've taken it with John to a new level. John, I did want to say I follow your socials, obviously. Congratulations on your recent appointment to full time president, isn't it? You've always been co-founder and CEO of Heal LA. Does this new role, does that change the work that you've been doing?

John:

Yes, first off, thank you, Paul. I really appreciate that. And yes, it does. It has opened up so many things and opportunities for the foundation to really improve and enhance on little to big things, times where just this week, I've had two focus groups with parents and students that we serve with our programs. Never had that time before. Now that I do, it's so important to listen to the community that we serve, to know what their needs are that we're meeting it because we've been going based on our own interests and then, of course, feedback that we've been getting from our programs, but they've been really on surveys and just word of mouth. But now that I have this flexibility, there's so much more to improve on in our programs and the work that we're doing. So just been a true blessing.

Paul:

Yeah. That's exciting. And I've got to say, I was honored to be able to first-hand experience helping you out with Thriller Night Weekend last year. And so, I could see firsthand how passionate you are about it and how your work ethic and how you got down and just did it. And you did it really well. So, thank you for giving me the opportunity to experience that. Can we go back a little bit? And, John, for your childhood and upbringing, were you a Michael Jackson fan as a kid?

John:

Oh, yeah.

Paul:

Who wasn't at that time who wasn't a fan. But was his philanthropy work? Was that something you were aware of growing up or was it just the message in the music that was inspiring to you?

John:

Yeah, great question. A little bit of both. I remember as a kid, I've shared this at other events, but when I was growing up, I believe it was VH One or MTV, they were doing a story on Michael and it was talking about his personal life, what his interests are. A lot of footage from Neverland, but then there was one segment, they talked about his foundation, and I was like, what is that? Because that is something I would definitely would love to be a part of. And what I've shared with people, that was, to me, like, my big rocky moment of, like, that is something that I wanted to do. And if it wasn't that, I always knew that I always wanted to have a career that gave back, whether that was a fireman doctor, a police officer. It just gave me that clear guidance that I wanted to have a career that gave back to others. But he talked about the Heal the World Foundation, and I was blown away just by hearing words that I've never heard of as a kid. Like, millions of dollars, I think. I remember asking, what is that? Let's backtrack. You think of $20. You think, how incredible is to have $20 in your name in your wallet? And when I was seeing the word hundreds and then finding out what millions mean and trying to make sense of that, I was like, why is he giving out that money? Like, keep it as a kid? But that was just my big moment of, like, wow, I definitely want to just one work for his foundation. That was ever a possibility when I became older, but if that wasn't the case, it gave me a clear pathway to do something that always gave back to help out others.

Paul:

Amazing. Did you have any other philanthropic influences other than Michael Jackson growing up?

John:

Yes, for sure. My mom, she was a special education teacher. I have an older autistic brother, and she became a special education teacher because when my brother was diagnosed, she went back to get her teaching credentials. Similar thing to Prince. She always told me, don't think about yourself. And I kind of just never understood what that meant. But she just kept on telling me, just don't think about yourself. And then the other person I've always shared, too, is that I grew up watching Mr. Rogers and the way he explained things about death, how to send mail, how to cook, or anything that in those segments that he talked about was always to help. He always says, look for the helpers. And I remember watching that and just being like, felt like that was another friend of mine that makes me feel comfortable in this world. But my mom and Mr. Rogers had and obviously Michael.

Paul:

Wow. So then how does it come about that you two meet and create Heal LA?

Prince:

It's a very funny story. It's a very funny story. Let's hear it. I went to LMU in 2015. I think it was the end of 2015, near, like, finals week. The semester was kind of about to wrap up. I was walking to my car late one night. It was kind of dark, and then John popped out of a bush. You want to tell him?

Paul:

Hahaha! What were you doing in a bush John?

John:

Not really behind a bush, but kind of the way it looked. It looked like I was hiding behind. But no. When I got admitted to LMU, I was a transfer student, so I was going to be a sophomore. I remember seeing on Twitter specifically you posted that you made your decision going to LMU, and I think it was between LMU and USC. So, I was like, whoa, how cool is that? Not thinking of anything. I was just like, wow, Prince is going to be going to the same school as I am. Like, cool. But the more it dawned on me, I was like, man, there's got to be an opportunity to work with him specifically and only through charity. That was thing that kept on replaying my head like, what can I do? Because I knew the Heal the World Foundation, it was no longer existing. So, I was wondering in my head and I was doing like, research of like, does he have his own foundation? Is he part of any charity? But then once I got there and settled in, I was like, well, if I ever meet him, I'm going to say hello. And then Prince has a very unique tone, loud voice. And I was like, oh, that sounds like him. And then I've heard that voice and I was like, I've seen I was like, okay, next time I'm going to have the courage, I'm going to have the moxie to go up. Of course, I picked the most random night. Probably not the best suited, but it was just one of those things like, you're going out to the stadium, you just got to go out there. So, I was like, you know what? Just pop out. So finally had the courage to pop out of the quote unquote bushes and was just like, I was just a fan. I was like, oh, my God. The whole shebang of like, my name is John so and so, big fan of Michael Jackson. But I really focus on obviously what he probably always hears. Like, I'm a fan of your father's music. And I said that, too. But what I wanted to make very clear was I'm a big fan of your father's philanthropy. That was my biggest thing that I want to get across. Like, the music will always be there no matter what. But I think what lost some time and I think your book does so many wonders is just like reminding fans and new fans of all the charity work he has done. And it was just one of those things. So then once I got to meet Prince, I was just telling him everything about how I was a big fan of his father. And then I had this idea of like, well, if I started a charity with him, here's the layout, essentially. So, I was giving him the quick rundown, nothing on paper. And then he was like, look, he was like, this sounds great and all, but you need to have something on paper. So, I was living on the dorm. I was in Levy five. No, I'm sorry. I was in McCarthy Hall. That's what I was saying. I went back to my dorm, went on my laptop real quick, started late, wrote the letter, planned out everything. I put it in one of those essay folders that went to clear through folder setting. And I had put it in my backpack because I was like, just in case, if I see them tomorrow, in a week and a month, I can have it ready. And then sure enough, maybe a few days passed by. I ran into Prince in, U-Haul, at LMU, I think, coming down the escalator. And I was like, it's almost like I served him. I was like, well, and he looked a little shocked because he was like, damn, you did this pretty quick. It was kind of like the end of the year, or we were going on winter break or whatever the case may be. But I gave it to him. And then during that break, I was like, I don't know if he's going to get back to me. And if not, it was cool just meeting him. It was cool giving him that proposal. But I was thinking in my head, I was like, if he does contact me, I left my phone number and email my school email. He's definitely going to get back to me on email if he did. But the first day back, whether it was from whatever break we came back from, he text me. And I was like I was jumping up and down because I was at my friend's dorm doing homework. I was like, man, this guy text me. I can't believe he text me instead of emailing me. Because I'm thinking he didn't want to give out his personal information. He had the school email too. But he texted me like, hey, this is Prince. And I thought it was a prank. So, I was looking around to see. But yeah, he texted me and he was like, let's get this started. So right away from there, submitted the paperwork through LMU student organization and got everything approved within a few months. And then we were rock and rolling from that.

Paul:

So obviously that presentation resonated with you, Prince, and you had the same sort of vision.

Prince:

Yeah. So, it's interesting. Like you said, a lot of people, my dad has the most incredible fans. It always comes from a place of love and admiration. And it's always great to speak with them and kind of share. Everybody has a Michael Jackson story. You know what I mean? It's always cool to hear those stories. But what wasn't common for me at that time was hearing people who were really passionate about the other endeavors of his life, not just the music. And so, when John was talking about how passionate he was about philanthropy. That was the first kind of green flag for me. He wasn't looking for something to catapult his own name into fame. It seemed that his intentions were in the right place. And when I asked him to put something in writing, it was really to see how serious was he about it. And I didn't think it was that serious. But he came back and he had this whole laid out plan. And where I saw the best opportunity and why we worked together so well is that growing up, my father really talked about how important it was not just to give money because we have money to communities, but time. It's so easy for people just to write a check and say, here, do it. And they don't care really where it goes. But even if you look in your book, right, not only is he giving large sums of money, but he's spending his time there. And time is one of those things that you can't get back.

John:

It's fine.

Prince:

Right? When I was doing my volunteer work, it was always about giving my time. We had donated some money to some other organizations in the past. And I recognize the importance that capital has in this world. It's really how the world turns and how you can make a real impact. But what was so inspirational is the biggest entertainer on the planet still made time to go to these small towns, these orphanages, these hospitals. And what that sent a message is you're never too big to do anything. No matter who you are, you're not above anyone. And where back to kind of the whole Heal Los Angeles thing. I was really passionate about giving my time, but I was doing it to so many different kind of endeavors and figuring out which sector of philanthropy really resonated with me. John has been the backbone of our organization since we were a student service in the sense that he's very good at managing it, laying out a strategy, getting other people together. The team that you put together for our first year as a student service organization was amazing. I don't even remember what the titles were, but you had like your right-hand man and they handled everything. It was running like a well-oiled ship or well-oiled machine. And that was something that we had as a benefit. There was so much bureaucracy with all these other student service organizations. People had to fill out applications and do all this stuff. We were just saying, hey, come join us. We're doing cool stuff and we're helping the community. And that really our group of people. And the way John managed it, not even while he was there, but there was about a year, year and a half when he graduated before I did, he was working full time at the Dodgers and still running the student service organization. And so, without that backbone, the scope and the impact of what we do at Hill Los Angeles really wouldn't be possible.

Paul:

Yeah. Wow. He's putting you up on that pedestal, John, because I was going to say, look, there's no instruction book on how to create a charity and what to do. I suppose you probably answered that with the team that you had. Everyone has a role and I suppose if you come together as a team with the same vision, it just happens. Would you do it the same if you could go back? It's been, what, seven years now? Almost seven years, would you do it the same?

Prince:

It's a good question. It's a good question.

I mean, it's very interesting to try and hindsight is 2020, right? So, every time you make little mistakes, you make missteps. So, with the knowledge that we have now, if we were to go back and do it differently, maybe we would. But I don't really feel confident in saying that because us going through all of the different versions of our mission and all of the different areas of impact that we wanted to do, the different programs that we did, really guided us to the place that we're at today. We worked with the La Food Bank, we worked with Habitat for Humanity, we worked with so many different other nonprofits as a student service that it allowed us to a get a grasp on the greater community and where we could fill those gaps. And also, there's some harsh realities that you sometimes have to come to face where sometimes you're really putting on a band aid on something that needs stitches or sutures. It forced us to really think impact based and not just, oh, we're doing this because it makes us feel good. We really want to make a change in the world and in our communities. And I think for that reason, I'm pretty happy with the path that we've taken. And I don't know if I do it different.

John:

I would have to agree with Prince on that, on his answer he just gave. We had such an incredible journey and we've learned so many great things and I'm not trying to repeat what just Prince just said right now, but we've learned from our mistakes and our success too. And the best thing about starting off of where we start off is that we've been able to gain natural followers, supporters from everywhere. And the thing that gives me goosebumps every time, especially at thriller night, but even when we're a student, we would have donations coming from all over the world. I would look at the Giving Fuel or Go funding that we had at the time. It would say China, Japan, and it blew my mind, just like from other states in the US of like, we're just this small student service at LMU and that also at the same time gave me confidence of like, wow, what we're doing is making a difference. People believe in us. And that's why people that come up to me at thriller night, they're like, oh, I came from this place or this place. I always ask the follow up of, like, oh, did you come to La. For Disneyland or for family? They're like, no, we came for thriller night because I'm like, wow, you came all the way out to Los Angeles for thriller night? On behalf of the hill Los Angeles foundation, you can't help but not think that everything that we went through, it was all for where we're at today.

Prince:

And I would add, when you see support coming from all over the world, our foundation is based in Los Angeles. We're called Heal Los Angeles. But my father has a global brand and had a global impact through his music, and his legacy continues to do so today. So, it's as inspiring and confidence building as it is to feel the support and love of the fans. It's also heartwarming and rewarding for me personally to see that there's so much love and support out there and that they believe in his mission and vision so much that it's translated to his eldest son and a fan of his, and they believe in us to try and make the world a better place.

Paul:

So, tell us a little bit about what Heal LA have done. What are some of the projects you've done?

Prince:

So as a student service organization, I think we really benefited greatly from LMU. It was so easy. Well, it was easy for me. He did all the paperwork. But I think it was through the student service organization, we were allowed to essentially kind of piggyback on their nonprofit status, to operate as a nonprofit. And what we did that was unique at that time was that our student service organization was really outwardly focused, not so much inwardly focused. A lot of the student service orgs were really geared around the LMU community and kind of their sister schools. Ours was more just the greater Los Angeles area. And anywhere that we could kind of fit in and help, we would, whether it was purely fundraising or if it was volunteering. So, we had a lot of really cool programs at that time, like our peanut butter project, which started off as really just putting together meals for the homeless population, but then it grew into something bigger where it wasn't your mom's classes, like helping us pack our bags together that we were putting in personal hygiene items. And I really enjoyed I think it was habitat was that habitat for humanity when we moved that family in oh, sense of home. Sense of home. That was so awesome. That was one of the most rewarding things I think, that we ever did. That was something else really emotional, really impactful. And then we were similar to how my father would expose us to how the other side of the world lives. Ellen is a predominantly privileged school. And a lot of the people who joined our organization, their hearts were in the right place, and they wanted to be of service, but they had never known of poverty and really low-income neighborhoods. So, when we would take them on these peanut butter projects to different kind of low-income areas, skid Row being one of them, it was opening them up to see that there is a whole other side of this world and they need our help. And so, we like to think that through that program, we impacted the population of La. As well as our kind of volunteers and students that were with us during that time.

Paul:

Yeah. And what's Heal LA working on now?

Prince:

You want to take that? We got a lot of good things. I don't want to keep talking so many fun things.

Paul:

Sure.

John:

Yes. So, since we became a nonprofit and we're now called the Hill Los Angeles Foundation, we have a new mission. We want to create impactful programs. And with our impactful programs, we're hoping that it can help our students or our youth pursue their dreams while also building fundamental life skills. So, a complete 180 from where we're a student service organization at LMU to now being an actual nonprofit. And the approach that we're taking right now is that our impact areas is two things. For right now, it's education and we're calling itself care, or it might be health and wellness. But within those two buckets now is that we have two programs, which is our virtual cooking class and our power up fitness program. Now, all of our programs for right now are at Laredo Street elementary, located in Northeast Los Angeles. How we selected that school in that area was just from research that we worked with at the time with USC, giving us the areas that needed the most support. And when we first started our first program, which was our virtual cooking class, we went based on the highest obesity area, low income and free and reduced lunch. And from there, we started meeting with schools within that area of just giving us a chance. And, boy, did I strike out on a lot of schools, because I would share what we're looking to do just with this virtual cooking class. And we just got nose across the board. The nose became from the sense, was it's just too good to be true? And when it's too good to be true, walk away. And I totally understand that part, but everything that I showed, like, yeah, everything's free. But I was very clear the only thing we need help with is recruitment because they know their students. And I think that's pretty much it, because we handle all the back end of things, of providing all the necessities. Right. And yeah, we just struck out. Struck out. And then finally, Laredo had a meeting with the principal. Her name is Principal Arcinica. And I think right from the moment she smiled, and I usually don't get smiles on the first zoom. Call it's a very serious film. And just sharing her about the foundation, like I usually did with every school and what we're trying to do with our first program, and she was like, okay, we're in. We'll give you the chance. So, then that was my moment of, okay, everything needs to go pretty much pitch perfect, because I don't want to lose her trust. If anything, I'm so trying. So, we had our first program, which was the virtual cooking class. And then two years later, it went so well, we knew we want to do something with sports or fitness, and then that's where we came up with our fitness program. And man, time we were just discussing about this earlier is that time flies. And I can't believe that both our virtual cooking class and our Power Up fitness program, they're going into 3rd, 4th years now, which we're super proud and excited about. And I think with my transition role to being full time now, I get to really now look into our two programs and future programs of like, hey, is this working? What adjustments do we need to make? What can we enhance our program that others are not doing? Something that's wonderful about our virtual cooking class, something so simple and yet easy, is that our families need financial support. And when they post their finished product with their child of the meal that week, they get a $50 grocery gift card weekly, since that's the length of the program. And that $50 grocery gift card. With inflation and everything on the rise, it helps out. When we started, it was actually $25, but we now have gained it to now to $50 weekly. Little stuff like that. And our power of Fitness, something that we would love to see is getting shoes for the kids, athletic shoes, little stuff like that. I know Michael always try to reinvent the wheel and trying to find new things to showcase during his concert or to his music, to his fans of always incorporating new stuff, new ideas, getting creative. So that's the approach now that I get to have along with Prince of like, hey, what makes our programs different? I'm trying to be better than other foundations. I think it's a collective group, and I think working with other foundation is a key thing. I know money wise, we're probably going after the same grant or same donors, but the end of the day, we're all doing great work, and it should never be looked as competition.

Paul:

Do you think it's important to collaborate with other non for profits?

John:

100%.

Prince:

I think collaboration is kind of the name of the game. It's really why I think this industry is so much fun to be in. It's emotionally taxing, working with children who are less fortunate, who are injured, who are sick. It's heartbreaking. And being in a place where we can try to make people's lives better. We all have good intentions. Whether you're at the Los Angeles Foundation or you're at another foundation, the purpose and the principle of it is to better the communities that you're in. And it's so rewarding, right, to be able to work together. And that's why it's so fun. Like you said, it's not competing. We're not trying to outdo them or be better than them. If we can support them and we can add to what they're doing, we're all for it. I think it's worth noting that we picked one of the worst times to start the program or the foundation because we became incorporated, like, four or five months before the pandemic happened. Our plan, when we were doing our incorporation, almost went right out the window, and we had to pivot and adjust where we were going with our plan. So, our cooking class was supposed to be in person part of the school day. And because it became because of the pandemic, we transitioned to virtual. And I think it's so cool, and I'm so happy about it because we wanted to teach kids how to cook and eat healthy. It's a skill that I wish I learned, and it's such a fundamental life skill to have. So that was the inspiration behind providing this, but one of these externalities that happened from it that we didn't anticipate, but we're so happy that it happened. We brought families together. Instead of teaching just kid how to cook, it's now at their house, we're sending them groceries. We now have their mom, dad, guardian, grandma, grandpa, whoever it is, their sisters, brothers, they're all there spending time together, family. And that was some very important moments in my childhood, was when we sat together at the end of the day talking about how our day was with my dad, with my grandma. And to be able to provide that for families and to know that we're hopefully making core memories in their childhood is so rewarding.

Paul:

Yeah. Sometimes those intangible flow ons from your initial impact are the most important. That family foundation, there's a lot to be said about that. And I know Prince, your cousins Carol, Taj and TJ have got the DD Jackson Foundation that provides support for those that have experienced loss and grief. Do any other family members get involved with Heal LA or some other non for profits? Your brother and sister get involved?

Prince:

Yes. So, my sister is one of our ambassadors at the Heal Los Angeles Foundation. She has a very busy schedule, constantly either touring or traveling for modeling and working on her own music. But she does show up at Thriller Nights. She tries to help us with our fundraising and connecting us with sponsors. My brother was a big, especially in the beginning stages of Thriller Nights. It was really his brainchild in a way. And you have to know BG to really know what he's like. But anytime he's doing something for Heal LA, whether it's for the Kids Day, because you were there, you got to see what it was like having all the kids come in. I see him passionate about two things. It's film and then it's helping those kids. And not necessarily in that order, but it's equal. And he was always excited about the children coming on Sunday. He was excited about getting in the maze and scaring them in there, making.

John:

Sure, that they were able to have a good time.

Prince:

And he's expressed to me, as he gets older, he wants to be more involved in philanthropy. My sister is an activist. She was an ambassador for the Elizabeth Taylor AIDS Foundation. I'm unsure if she still is, but I know she's still greatly involved in it. She's an activist, stands up for multiple causes similar to my father, uses her platform not to promote injustice, but to promote the recognition of it and to make a change. And I think that's something that's fundamental to all of my family members, even my cousin Genevieve Jackson. She had started a movement called Everything is Going to be okay. And she continued that it was really as a movement or a moment of inspiration to provide people who are going through tough times to tell them that everything is going to be okay. And it's something that is instilled in all of us. My grandma is a very kind, caring woman, and she's always adamant about giving back to the community in however way you can.

Paul:

Yeah. And you touched on thriller night. And again, thank you both for the opportunity to come and help along last year, and I don't think a lot of people know about the third day, the Sunday when the kids come in. You had 300 plus kids come in from the inner city of La. That I've heard. It's not safe for them to go trick or treating. For them to come into Hayvenhurst and have a day where everything's free. They're getting awesome food. They're getting games, they're getting gifts from winning these games and entertainment. That was definitely the highlight of my weekend there. And speaking to a lot of people there, they all felt the same. That was amazing. But we're not doing Thriller Night this year. Why not?

Prince:

Yeah, it was a hard decision for us to make. We really were trying to figure out how we can make it work. But with the upcoming biopic based on my father, they want to be as authentic as possible, and that involves filming on location at that property. And so, there was no way with the amount of time and prep that goes into Thriller nights, there was no way we'd be able to do that and the film, because there's a lot of time and prep that goes into that. So, it was just too much conflictions going on there, and we just felt that you know what? Let's put this on hold for this year. Let's figure out how we can make it better for the next year and kind of take it from there.

Paul:

Yeah, you did touch on before that dealing with the people you deal with and helping people and looking and focusing on societal problems can have an impact on your mental health and well-being. I did want to ask if there's something that you both find helpful for your mental health and wellbeing, because it's something that you need to be on top of as well. To give the best you, you need to be your best you.

Prince:

It's a very good question. It's a very valid point. I think, speaking for myself, we're both pretty young, and it's kind of an ongoing process, right. Kind of figuring out what is it that allows you to reconnect with you. For me, a solid go to, and maybe we can both agree on this, but is my dad's music. Without a doubt, I'll just go in a room alone, play his music. I think that's a solid one. My dad was always speaking about every time I spent time with my dad, really was outside and being out for me and feeling your kind of toes in the grass, that's really important. I love birds. I'm fortunate to live in a place where there's birds all around, so just being able to hear kind of nature is really great for me. I ride motorcycles. It's not safe. I don't know if I can recommend, but it allows me to have this opportunity to really just I can't be on my phone. I'm forced to not be on it. So, I don't have no Instagram, no email, no text messages, no phone calls. And again, there's some Jackson music playing in the helmet. And it's such a really cool feeling to be able to just kind of disconnect from the problems, either managerial or because you feel so bad that there's people out here going through this and there's only so much you can do. Being able to take that space and kind of reground yourself, for me, is very important and probably something I need to work on, truthfully. But as I said, it's a process. You know what I mean? Very young, and as you know, when you get older, you learn more, you get wiser, and you get tools to kind of cope with these things.

Paul:

How do you look after yourself, John?

John:

Yeah. As Prince was sharing his answer, I was thinking about mine. And I'm breaking down my answer to three categories. Here one for myself. I go to therapy weekly, and I'm very proud to share that out loud. I always over vocalize it to all my friends and family that I just love going to therapy. I think there's obviously a huge stigma of it, of like, oh, you go to therapy, you might be considered weird or suicidal, wherever the case may be.

Paul:

I do it too.

John:

Yes.

Paul:

Regularly.

John:

Love my therapist. So, I look forward to every Monday at 07:00. And the second part, I think all Michael Jackson fans know this, but sometimes feeling down, need some little inspiration, creativity. I've gone into wormholes and I was just speaking this to one of our ambassadors, Liam. I was sharing this with him. Is that just this week, I think was Monday or Tuesday. I was like, Man, I need some creativity. Not feeling low, but energy was a little low. And I went on the great YouTube type in Michael Jackson interviews, Michael Jackson concert specific ones that speak loud to me. And just like, seeing him, I don't know, perform, seeing his face, it just gives me that inspiration of like, okay, this is exactly what I needed. Inspiration. My email, doing the work of, like, Michael's got my back in a way. There's something to believe in, there's something to keep going. And it just gives me that extra juice that I need for that day or for that week. And I think the third thing, Paul, of going, talking about mental health is that pre pandemic, but especially after this pandemic, mental health has been a huge need and concern for youth, whether from elementary all the way to high school, college students, or adults, right. We just need someone we need to share how we feel. And that is one of our third programs that Prince and I are looking into. We don't have the full details yet, but I think a yoga meditation program is something we would like to implement during the school hours, since both of our programs have been after school. But now having this time, right, of getting creative, knowing what the community needs based on surveys and focus groups, and just knowing just in the know of things, of what people need nowadays. And one of them is clearly mental health. So, I think going that route, I know Prince and I were very passionate about animals. We're thinking about utilizing therapy dogs to come to schools. I know that they did that LMU during midterms or finals just to relieve that stress. But how cool would it be to have students do like, a yoga meditation at the beginning of the week and then in a way, get awarded by having therapy dogs just to have and release some stress going into the weekend? We don't know what they could be facing at home, but they can end or start their day with therapy dogs. We're just very passionate about knowing what people needs are and actually doing something about it. Of course, if it aligns with our mission and vision.

Paul:

Yeah, that sounds really good and beneficial on so many different levels. The therapy dog and the meditation, which would help them focus at school as well, which help get better grades. And there's all these flow on effects to all the work that you're doing. And I don't know if that answers my next question, which is, what are your hopes and dreams for the future of Heal LA?

Prince:

That's a long conversation.

Paul:

Well, to keep doing what you're doing, I suppose, would be part of it 100%.

Prince:

And following in the footsteps of my father to make it bigger and better each time, that we can do something and learn from the mistakes of what happened in the past, even if it's not necessarily an outright mistake. If we didn't achieve a goal or we didn't really see the impact that we were looking for, not giving up and kind of continuing to move forward with it. John and I both agree that we want to make the communities feel that they can trust us. And what we've noticed is that trust takes time. And we're not just in here just for the publicity. We're not here just to say, oh, we did this. We care about this community, about the families of the children, the parents that are within the community of Laredo Street elementary, the northeast Los Angeles area. And we're all children of the world, right? So, we have to extend that loving hand. And we've chosen this district to be I don't want to say the test, but this is where we see how impactful our programs really are. This is where we get to hear the feedback in our focus groups from our kids and from our parents and our teachers to see how can we improve. And then once we get it to a place where we know what we're doing, we're confident in this and we know how to bring it to other kids around the world without diluting quality. That's how we can keep making it bigger and better. The small things that we do are we'll add an extra week to the program or two weeks to the program, as John mentioned, we'll double the gift card balance as kind of the incentive for it. And it's these little things that even with the gift cards, it started out as an incentive, how do we get the people to want to be a part of our program? But we hear from the principal and the staff that that incentive means so much more. It's not just an incentive. It's just as equally as important as the program itself. And we're allowed to support this family in another way. And for us, we always talk about having a center of some sorts, hopefully named after my father. I think it'd be really cool to you were there on Sunday, so you really get that feeling of kids just running wild and having a great time and yelling and it's a small glimpse for me of what I guess my dad was feeling when he brought all those kids to Neverland. And to be able to recreate that space and duplicate it, not just limit it to a specific location, but if we can build this out have a center in La. It'd be fantastic if we can grow to another city, to another country, and still maintain that quality.

John:

I'll just add to what Prince said. I think we've been on record of like; we would love to open up our own center, building something very similar to LeBron James's, I promise school, but maybe more. Not in school, after school programs. And to build on what Prince said, we wouldn't use it the word test. But our programs that we're doing now, we're not afraid to say if the program has failed, because if the program has failed, we know that we're not going to do it. We're going to go back to the drawing board of like, hey, what's up next? Because ultimately at this center, we would love to have enrichment programs, whether it's a cooking class, whether it's outdoor sports and fitness, or if it's a tutoring, or if it's a mentoring program, or if it's a dance or singing class. There's going to be so much things to be offered at the center down the line. But how do we pick and choose? There's only so many things you can focus on, right? And how you do that is by trial and error. Luckily, we've had it not say we haven't failed, but so far in our programs, we haven't had one where it's like, well, this one's not working, so you can scratch that one. But I am so looking forward to the day if we do have one of those, it's like, okay, hey, we tried this out, we failed. That's okay. But we're going to move on and keep continue building on that because ultimately, down the road for this center, it's going to be like, hey, based on what we have been doing for X amount of years, based on research, based on feedback, based on the community's feedback, we're very invested and committed. Like, these are the resources we're going to have at this center. How cool would it be to say this is the Michael Jackson Children's Center or the Michael Jackson Center in general, just having his name up, man, I'm looking forward to that day.

Paul:

Yes, I would add to that and.

Prince:

Say that I'm excited to see when we have an individual. Like, for me, the minimum is I want to change at least one person's.

John:

Life for the better.

Prince:

Adjust their path, to put them into a place by their own definition of success, if it's monetarily, if its family based, whatever it is, but they're just happy in life, and if we are the reason for that, that would be amazing. That would be amazing.

Paul:

So how can listeners jump on board? How can people support and help you guys with Heal LA, help other people?

John:

That's a good question. The first thing, obviously, donation always helps us out because what's nice about the foundation is that all of our donation goes straight back into our programs or special events. They're not for admin. They're not for the generics of. It goes back straight to our programs and special events. So, I would say that would be the first one. The second part, I think there's great and bad things right about social media, but the good thing about social media is just getting our word out there. We have our ambassador program, which they do a phenomenal job getting our name out there, but it could be literally a child, a teen, an adult, an elder posting something about the foundation. And what's the incredible thing about something like Facebook and Instagram I'll give you two examples is that if you're Joe Schmo at home and you want to share about the foundation, you could post any picture. And on Instagram, there's a section where you can fundraise on your post, and you could put whatever dollar amount from I think the minimum is like $5, or you can go to millions. And that's the beauty of social media. And what the other part? Like Facebook, what Michael Jackson fans have done is that on their birthdays, they'll create a birthday fundraising. And those $5 here, $300 there, $100, $50, and they always reach their goal. I haven't seen one goal that someone hasn't put, they haven't reached. I think the biggest one was $1,000. But a few thousand dollars here, a few hundred dollars here, it really adds up. And I think word of mouth and getting it out on social media just are the two best ways.

Paul:

Do you have a donate link on your website?

John:

Yes, we do.

Paul:

What's the website?

John:

Www.healfdn.com.

Paul:

Excellent. I'll make sure I put all the links in our show notes and make sure people know how to help and donate and even be inspired by what you guys are doing, because I'm inspired by what you're doing and you're obviously doing it because you've been inspired. And a message that I want to get through to people that are listening is that you don't have to be rich or famous to be a humanitarian. The only prerequisite to being a humanitarian is being human. It's just a human doing one act of kindness and then another act of kindness, and then another, and then before you know it, you've got a book written about you!

Prince:

A nonprofit, we have to raise money as a 501 c three. Money is what funds our programs. But there's also people who want to give back if they can't give money because of their budgetary reasons and their financial positions. It's like you said, we also want to encourage people and inspire people to do an act of kindness for someone in your community each and every day. And I think that it's like you said, one step at a time. You can really ultimately change the world and have an impact in that. So, whether or not we are excited to open up volunteer opportunities as the programs make them available, it's. So, heartwarming to work with children, to be there, to see them having fun. And we're really trying to build out more programs where we can bring in people like yourself to come and volunteer and help out in that way. But you're all the way across the world. You have your own foundation. You're inspired by my father, and you're making a difference in the world in your own way. And that right there is how we continue the legacy not of just of Michael Jackson, but how we feel that we also contribute to the world, is trying to inspire people kids our age, adults, older people, whoever it is to be that change they want to see in the world.

Paul:

Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate your time. It's probably a little bit more time than we put aside, but I appreciate it. I appreciate what you're doing. Keep it up. Keep up the good work. You're doing awesome.

Prince:

Likewise. Looking forward to seeing you again, buddy. You got to let us know when you're out here next.

Paul:

Yeah, for sure, I will. And I've got some exciting other episodes of the podcast with some great stories, some that are in the book. There's also a few more stories that I've come across that aren't in the book, and I've had some really interesting chats with people who have been touched and impacted by your dad's legacy. Can't wait to share them. I hope you listen to it, and thanks again for joining.

Prince:

Thank you, my friend. I really enjoyed this.